NEW YORK -- NHL players have rejected two new proposals from the league, and one owner said he is certain there will be no labor agreement by Oct. 15.


The league and the union spent six hours bargaining Wednesday, the second day of contract negotiations since commissioner Gary Bettman shut down the start of the season for at least two weeks.


After turning down two offers from the owners, the players said they would come back with a counter-proposal "in a day or two.''


But the owners sounded pessimistic. "I don't think we're going to be able to reach an agreement,'' said John McMullen, owner of the New Jersey Devils, who had voiced hopes of a compromise after Tuesday's negotiating session. "It's over.''


"The lines are hardening. I'm very disappointed, very frustrated,'' said Howard Baldwin, co-owner of the Pittsburgh Penguins. "You can't make a deal unless two people are willing to negotiate.''


It was learned that the NHL, bowing to players' claims that a payroll levy unfairly burdened them with supporting small-market clubs, offered to impose a levy on gate receipts to spread the economic load among players and owners.


The second proposal made Wednesday stipulated the levy would be assessed on all payroll dollars, not only on the amount clubs exceeded a negotiated limit, to address players' objections that a levy would function as a salary cap.


Players continue to resist any form of salary restrictions.


"At what point does a tax become a salary cap?'' said Mike Gartner, president of the NHL Players Association. "Until we come up with a solution to our philosophical differences, we'll be negotiating for a long time, I guess.''


The season was to have started last Saturday, and through Wednesday 26 games have been postponed. Bettman has said he hoped to begin the season Oct. 15 provided there was sufficient progress toward a labor agreement.


(LAT, AP)